There are many people who reject religion do so because the only religious voice they hear is from the radical religious right. There are many religious leaders who are more progressive and are frustrated. I wonder if we could find or sponsor a forum to bring progressive religious leaders together (interfaith) to collaborate about finding a religious progressive voice.
My political awareness got its start in the Lutheran Church, with pastors preaching sermons on social justice in the sixties. We always thought that Christian faith was about social justice. The "evangelical" right is a heresy. Evangelicals in the nineteenth century were leaders amongst abolitionists and other campaigners for a better world.
As a reconciling United Methodist lay leader, I find religion gets a bad rap because of evangelical and religious right extremists who seem to forget that we are not in a theocracy (at least not yet). I see my faith as a reason for being a progressive, equality and equity participant in politics. We would all do well to remember that a relationship with God (or no relationship for those who don’t believe) should be a personal guiding light, not a battering ram to beat others into submission. Using belief in God to hurt others is contrary to what people say they believe a loving God to be.
I consider myself a person of faith. I daily read Bible apps, the Bible and Franciscan Father Richard Rohr’s Daily Meditations from the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque. He has a very inclusive view of God and the importance of Unity. This year’s theme is “Nothing Stands Alone”. His meditations includes writings from Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other mystical views of faith. At the very least the good practicing “Christian” should always be working from a framework of justice based on Love. My problem is my inability to find that view being consistently “preached” in a bricks and mortar church. It feels like Churches I have recently attended don’t have the courage to call out social wrongs for fear of offending some members. True Bible based behavior and messaging should be very clear about gun control and basic human rights for everyone, including women and their rights to make their decisions about their bodies. I think many organized “Christian” institutions lack the courage to speak what the Bible really says about many of these issues. So sad because I so agree with you Dr. El-Sayed-Faith matters! And as I work this election cycle with the Michigan Voter Protection Hotline I really view this work from a truly spiritually based point of view.
Very important contribution. Spot on! "As both a proud Muslim and a proud progressive, I find that the tension across these has become increasingly difficult to hold. Though our movement takes pains to welcome Muslim identity, I often find an implicit mistrust of the personal beliefs and practices that come with the faith. The idea of prayer or religious discipline is openly mocked or scorned... " Thank you for drawing attention to this issue.
The same characteristic that drives people to seek out religion, especially ones that advocate a rigid view of right and wrong also makes them seek out authoritarian political leaders. It's the Pilgrims all over again. One doesn't have to believe in a deity to work on behalf of social justice and in fact religion often gets in the way of achieving it. There is no convincing people who hold these views to embrace the whole human family.
I disagree. This is an unnecessarily defensive argument. There’s no need to get defensive with those who reject religion. Their rejection of religion is not an offensive act. It is not an attack on Muslims or any religion. This argument pushes back on and takes offence at the non religious. Throughout the world and in the United States the non religious have historically been, and continue to be, one of the most discriminated against groups. The rejection of religion need not have anything to do with the defeat of the evangelical right or any religion for that matter. Religious Democrats should embrace the non religious, not tell them that their rejection of religion is problematic.
This is one of the most important contributions to The Incision. It is nuanced and insightful. The role of faith, a belief system not objectively provable, includes religion, politics and other life experiences and practices.
I was raised in the South by a father who was a pastor in a fundamental religion. He gave his life to Christ in a tent revival meeting in western Kentucky at age 19. The religion in which I was raised required you to be twice blessed, saved and sanctified. Full emersion baptism was required. All church members had the right, even the obligation to correct any “sinful” actions. Crowd dynamics applied to all. The promise was an angelic life in heaven for true believer Christians or burning in hell for eternity for sinners.
Trump has created a belief system based on strict adherence to his mandates and all of the lies he has told as an article of faith. Adherence to his demands is reinforced, required by his crowd of adherents, true believers.
Faith does have a role to play in many people’s lives. It offers a path to follow in managing life’s many ups and downs. It provides comfort after death to believe you will exist forever in peace, beauty and harmony. I don’t think that can be taken away from those who incorporate that into their being.
It is estimated that there are close to 4 thousand religions worldwide. Why would that many exist if there is one true answer, one God guiding all? I personally respect other’s religious beliefs. I do not have to adopt them as my own or pay a price for choosing my own values to live by. We must keep religious beliefs and politics separate!
Your comment at the end: "It turns out that freedom from religion implies freedom of religion. We would do well to embrace both." is so right in my opinion. Years ago, when I finally realized that each religion and each doctrine that is adhered to is actually an ideology, I resigned from my "ideology" Christianity and now think of myself as unaffiliated. I am free to experience the universal force (God) without having to define, describe, or make up mythologies to explain what I believe.
I find myself wondering if you are referring to a certain aloofness that is often associated with academics -- an air of being "right" or judging the "basket of deplorables" instead of adopting a "live & let live" perspective. The religious right has definitely made it harder for me to be accepting of organized religion; also, I was raised Catholic but made a conscious decision that uncertainty is what I must live with. Spirituality becomes more prominent with age, but not the doctrine of any church. I struggle to understand how it feels to be more accepting of religion, but realize that people don't arrive at the same conclusion and may not feel as constrained as I do. We really need to leave room for each other.
I'm an atheist. I believe it is the control freak extremists in all religions who are a danger to all of us. My mom left the church in her youth but raised me to believe all people have value and are worthy of respect and thus I will work with anyone who believes similarly. Thanks for addressing this important issue.
There are many people who reject religion do so because the only religious voice they hear is from the radical religious right. There are many religious leaders who are more progressive and are frustrated. I wonder if we could find or sponsor a forum to bring progressive religious leaders together (interfaith) to collaborate about finding a religious progressive voice.
My political awareness got its start in the Lutheran Church, with pastors preaching sermons on social justice in the sixties. We always thought that Christian faith was about social justice. The "evangelical" right is a heresy. Evangelicals in the nineteenth century were leaders amongst abolitionists and other campaigners for a better world.
As a reconciling United Methodist lay leader, I find religion gets a bad rap because of evangelical and religious right extremists who seem to forget that we are not in a theocracy (at least not yet). I see my faith as a reason for being a progressive, equality and equity participant in politics. We would all do well to remember that a relationship with God (or no relationship for those who don’t believe) should be a personal guiding light, not a battering ram to beat others into submission. Using belief in God to hurt others is contrary to what people say they believe a loving God to be.
I consider myself a person of faith. I daily read Bible apps, the Bible and Franciscan Father Richard Rohr’s Daily Meditations from the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque. He has a very inclusive view of God and the importance of Unity. This year’s theme is “Nothing Stands Alone”. His meditations includes writings from Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other mystical views of faith. At the very least the good practicing “Christian” should always be working from a framework of justice based on Love. My problem is my inability to find that view being consistently “preached” in a bricks and mortar church. It feels like Churches I have recently attended don’t have the courage to call out social wrongs for fear of offending some members. True Bible based behavior and messaging should be very clear about gun control and basic human rights for everyone, including women and their rights to make their decisions about their bodies. I think many organized “Christian” institutions lack the courage to speak what the Bible really says about many of these issues. So sad because I so agree with you Dr. El-Sayed-Faith matters! And as I work this election cycle with the Michigan Voter Protection Hotline I really view this work from a truly spiritually based point of view.
Very important contribution. Spot on! "As both a proud Muslim and a proud progressive, I find that the tension across these has become increasingly difficult to hold. Though our movement takes pains to welcome Muslim identity, I often find an implicit mistrust of the personal beliefs and practices that come with the faith. The idea of prayer or religious discipline is openly mocked or scorned... " Thank you for drawing attention to this issue.
The same characteristic that drives people to seek out religion, especially ones that advocate a rigid view of right and wrong also makes them seek out authoritarian political leaders. It's the Pilgrims all over again. One doesn't have to believe in a deity to work on behalf of social justice and in fact religion often gets in the way of achieving it. There is no convincing people who hold these views to embrace the whole human family.
I disagree. This is an unnecessarily defensive argument. There’s no need to get defensive with those who reject religion. Their rejection of religion is not an offensive act. It is not an attack on Muslims or any religion. This argument pushes back on and takes offence at the non religious. Throughout the world and in the United States the non religious have historically been, and continue to be, one of the most discriminated against groups. The rejection of religion need not have anything to do with the defeat of the evangelical right or any religion for that matter. Religious Democrats should embrace the non religious, not tell them that their rejection of religion is problematic.
This is one of the most important contributions to The Incision. It is nuanced and insightful. The role of faith, a belief system not objectively provable, includes religion, politics and other life experiences and practices.
I was raised in the South by a father who was a pastor in a fundamental religion. He gave his life to Christ in a tent revival meeting in western Kentucky at age 19. The religion in which I was raised required you to be twice blessed, saved and sanctified. Full emersion baptism was required. All church members had the right, even the obligation to correct any “sinful” actions. Crowd dynamics applied to all. The promise was an angelic life in heaven for true believer Christians or burning in hell for eternity for sinners.
Trump has created a belief system based on strict adherence to his mandates and all of the lies he has told as an article of faith. Adherence to his demands is reinforced, required by his crowd of adherents, true believers.
Faith does have a role to play in many people’s lives. It offers a path to follow in managing life’s many ups and downs. It provides comfort after death to believe you will exist forever in peace, beauty and harmony. I don’t think that can be taken away from those who incorporate that into their being.
It is estimated that there are close to 4 thousand religions worldwide. Why would that many exist if there is one true answer, one God guiding all? I personally respect other’s religious beliefs. I do not have to adopt them as my own or pay a price for choosing my own values to live by. We must keep religious beliefs and politics separate!
Your comment at the end: "It turns out that freedom from religion implies freedom of religion. We would do well to embrace both." is so right in my opinion. Years ago, when I finally realized that each religion and each doctrine that is adhered to is actually an ideology, I resigned from my "ideology" Christianity and now think of myself as unaffiliated. I am free to experience the universal force (God) without having to define, describe, or make up mythologies to explain what I believe.
I find myself wondering if you are referring to a certain aloofness that is often associated with academics -- an air of being "right" or judging the "basket of deplorables" instead of adopting a "live & let live" perspective. The religious right has definitely made it harder for me to be accepting of organized religion; also, I was raised Catholic but made a conscious decision that uncertainty is what I must live with. Spirituality becomes more prominent with age, but not the doctrine of any church. I struggle to understand how it feels to be more accepting of religion, but realize that people don't arrive at the same conclusion and may not feel as constrained as I do. We really need to leave room for each other.
I'm an atheist. I believe it is the control freak extremists in all religions who are a danger to all of us. My mom left the church in her youth but raised me to believe all people have value and are worthy of respect and thus I will work with anyone who believes similarly. Thanks for addressing this important issue.
Love This! Thank You for your Courage. You are playing chess, not merely reacting to what was said a moment ago, but thinking it through over time.
It may look like a rook, but it moves like a bishop...
If Religious minorities feel the threat is coming from the Democratic Party; they're either brainwashed or naive.
Excellent